jillian on love — How to Live in Your Feminine Energy with Sage Robbins

Transcript کامل قسمت

Hey, everyone.

Today I sit down with Sage Robbins.

So excited about this.

Sage Robbins is a speaker and a mentor who has for decades been serving millions around the world alongside her husband, Tony Robbins.

Both Sage and Tony have had a profound impact on the work that I do.

In fact, I wouldn't be here today speaking with all of you.

I wouldn't have written my book.

for all of you if it weren't for my experience with Tony and Sage.

So this is a very special treat.

She brings incredible, incredible experience and wisdom

to this conversation and to the world.

We talk about what it means to be in our feminine energy.

If we're actually running a business, we talk about dynamics between couples.

We talk about overcoming pain and grief.

We talk about my experience a little bit with my ex-husband.

And we talk about the subtle shifts in our thinking

and in our mindset so that we can live a more fulfilling life.

This is an incredibly important conversation.

I cannot wait for you to listen to it, to watch it.

Without further ado, Sage Robbins.

Sage Robbins.

Hello, Jillian.

Hello.

Hello.

It's nice to meet you.

It's so nice to meet you, although I kind of feel like I know you because I've seen you on stage and seen you speak for so many years now.

And, you know, you are married to one of the most powerful, loudest, most intense people.

Most beautifully intense men on the planet.

And yet I don't think as many people know about you and the role that you have played.

I know because I've seen you on stage and I also know that every time that you have spoken on stage, the room gets very quiet and listens and your energy could not be any more different.

Yeah.

Well, that's interesting.

You know, it's it's I find it interesting because people, I suppose, just the innocent projections, you know, Tony, yes, comes in a package.

And I believe that people would perceive certainly when he is on stage, there's a certain amount of projection.

Yeah, that he's, you know, powerful and intense.

He's also so extraordinarily tender.

I find him to be incredibly thoughtful, sensitive and flip it.

And I think people could probably say the same about me in tense.

And so that's just such an interesting juxtaposition in this dance called life and our differences.

And I find that so beautiful.

And yet different context where energy plays out and how, you know, it can look different depending upon the context.

A lot of people in our company, they call me the velvet hammer.

And a hammer wrapped in velvet or silk.

Yes.

And possibly sometimes they might prefer to go to Tony.

So anyway.

I don't doubt it.

But speaking of that, you know, no one...

I don't know anyone who becomes a sage without having to confront darkness, both within themselves and also outside of themselves.

And so I'm curious to hear a little bit more about you and some of the things that you have had to break through within the confines of your own mind in order to become sage.

Yes.

Well, becoming and I'm certainly a work in progress like all of us and evolution.

I just feel that life offers it to us and to grow us and evolve us and humble us.

And I have certainly been decimated and flattened just with like any human being.

And it's so interesting, like the notion of darkness.

I really see that more as confusion.

It's a confused state of mind.

And when we have a confused state of mind, you speak about Jillian, about meaning or beliefs.

If that's really where I experienced the distortion or have experienced the distortion or the illusions and the delusions that mind can offer up about ourself or our beloveds or life itself.

Um, and I just feel that, uh, and by the way, it never, it never stops.

It never, that opportunity, my sweet parents, they're at a stage of life right now.

And, uh, you know, it's just, it's a precious chapter that, uh, where I feel like sometimes the tables turn where, uh, we, as the children are able to hold space and, uh, at times care give and, um,

I find that very powerful and beautiful and humbling.

And it's been my, at a younger version of myself, when I think of the notion of darkness or the notion of pain, you know, I've distracted myself, done everything.

You know, you numb yourself, you distract yourself, you move away from it.

And at this stage of my life, I really look to just bring whatever it is really close to

It's like, and this too, you know, and this too, so that, you know, as we, and what I mean by that is just like, um, we, through the path of avoidance, uh, it's my experience that things can get even more distorted or even more scary, even more the illusion of darkness.

And so at this stage of my life, I like to bring life close, even what, uh, may feel scary or overwhelming.

Cause I think from that perspective, we're able to bring greater understanding, which is really illumination, you know, to bring love, to bring our acceptance to circumstances that, uh, terrify us or, um,

decimate us.

And that experience, no matter who we are or how old we are, it never, it never ends.

You know, life just keeps offering us these.

You look at it on the world stage right now, that's happening on the world stage and it happens individually for all of us.

So yes, have I been flattened, decimated on my knees?

Absolutely.

It's why I sit in front of you today.

Yes.

What is the process of bringing things closer?

I know the process of numbing.

I think everyone knows that.

But what is your particular process of bringing that confusion or that which seems dark closer?

Yes.

Yes.

Well, I, you know, it's interesting because, you know, we can look at like things seem dark and that can seem obscure rather than, hey, it's an internal experience.

I look to like follow my sensations.

And if I'm feeling constriction or intense resistance, hey, something to get curious about and look within what am I actually believing and thinking about this?

And it's usually...

This shouldn't be happening.

She shouldn't be saying this.

Why are you don't mean all of our external projections and bringing it close is really taking a look at what I'm able to shift.

What I'm actually believing and thinking about it so that I can and also just have compassion.

It's like the awareness of who felt that.

You know, so through, I know you talk about present strategies and I feel that, you know, as we, it's the Aikido, as we breathe into life and into these spaces that feel constricting or feel overwhelming or feel painful.

You know, I've, gosh, just as a, as a mother, I never imagined it would be

an over 20 year journey to be a mother and miscarried, you know, a number of times.

And, you know, when I look back at a younger version of myself and I look at how I navigated each chapter of that five different miscarriages, you know, at the tail end, it was something that I, I don't know.

I look back from this version of myself and I would never be here without, you know,

Each of those painful or, you know, circumstances of what was perceived to be loss at the time.

And I say perceived to be because at this stage, I can look back and see how much they opened me and schooled me and really taught me what surrender really means.

Um, I remember reading earlier on in my life about the notion of surrender and thinking, oh, I do that.

Oh, I'm so good at surrendering and, and, uh, not at all.

Not at all.

Mind is such a trickster and the ego can be so seductive.

And sometimes when the volume gets turned up of life, of pain, of feeling the illusion of out of control, I think that's what most of us would perceive to be darkness.

And it's just possibly what hasn't been accepted as of yet.

That's certainly been my experience.

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You know, when I look at, I suppose, just maturity, Jillian, through each chapter as life has been written and each and every miscarriage and as well, IVF cycle that I did.

And just, you know, all those opportunities, I suppose, to surrender and to accept what life was offering me.

And, you know, that's not easy.

That takes a willingness and a receptivity to understand, I suppose, or to believe in a greater divine design for life.

And that there is something larger that's breathing this breath.

And that's really humbling because, you know, as a younger version of myself, I thought I had it all figured out and how I wanted my life to be or not to be.

And life showed me something very different.

And ironically, in the end, more beautiful.

More beautiful than my own selfish expectations or wants.

Actually more beautiful and more meaningful.

And I, you know, I love the work that you're doing, Jillian, because it's, you know, through our awareness, through our breath.

through our willingness to take a look at how am I being that I really feel the greatest freedom lays.

I'm curious, as someone who's been married over 20 years now, right?

Yes, over, I think 25 years.

Dude, that's crazy.

Time flies.

When you are bringing things closer to you to look at it, you know, any sort of darkness,

I think this is something that a lot of people get confused about is how much do we discuss that with our partner?

How much transparency about what we're dealing with internally needs to happen?

Is it 100% full transparency?

Is there nuance there?

Well, that's a great question.

Yes, I think life is always nuanced.

But after 25 years, there's also just such an utter transparency.

And rather than darkness, I just look at it as life.

Life is beautiful.

Life can be brutal.

Life can be painful.

It can be messy.

It can be sweet.

It's just like all these textures, but it's really the, the, we believe like the, the darkness is really through our own confusion.

I'm not saying on the world stage, I'm just saying on our inner world, that's what we really can shift.

And so what it looks like is, and I'm just feeling so stacked right now where I'm, you know, I'm feeling overwhelmed.

Thank you for your grace.

You know, we have this weird thing sometimes in relationship, and I have been so guilty of this, where it's like, you know, I remember literally hearing the words out of my own mouth.

Tona, I mean, you're not understanding me.

Why aren't you present for me?

Isn't that absurd?

Because really, I wasn't being present for myself.

And how could I expect him or anybody else to understand what I wasn't understanding inside of my own mind?

And I feel that's such freedom to just own it.

If I have an exchange and I walk out of the room and I don't feel that I'm really connected or if I walk in and I'm charged and I communicate from that place, I'll tidy it up.

I'll tidy up and be like, hon, you know what?

I probably just look like I was so crazy right now.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Can we begin again?

And in that level of ownership, I think, you know...

The first relationships has, it's been my experience anyways, has like different stages and seasons, Jillian.

And certainly the first decade of mine and Tony's relationship, or I think any relationship is really about figuring, not even figuring ourself out, but getting over ourselves.

Yeah.

getting over ourselves, getting over our conditioned self, our conditioned expectations.

And, you know, in that space, a lot of times we don't make it through that decade.

But when you do, it's a beautiful thing because there's an unbound space where it's not about boundaries.

It's not about limitations or, you know, what I know or you don't know, because there is such a transparency.

There's such an openness and a receptivity because we understand one another because we're human rather than, you know, he's this, she's that.

He's so harsh.

He's so intense.

She's so tight.

It's like, yeah.

Yes, I've been all those things.

And if we're human, we all are.

And I think the myth sometimes is, you know, labeling each other as, oh, he's so dark or he's so twisted or she's so tight or whatever, whatever labels we put on each other.

And it's, it's human.

It's human.

And it's, it's life's legit, right?

And it's real.

It's real to navigate the day-to-day, nevermind cancer diagnosis, nevermind death, nevermind, like all that we as human beings are offered.

And I suppose that's really, that's the end this too.

It's almost, oh, wow.

Okay, life, end this too.

Where you just bring it in and connect with it versus faith.

Like resist, push away.

Like, oh, I don't want to deal with this.

I don't want to think about this.

I don't want to see him or her.

And I've done that.

And that's painful.

It's not only painful for me, it's painful for everybody because it hurts to, I suppose, not live as our nature, which is love.

Yes.

It hurts.

It's painful not to close.

And so, you know, you've used the word darkness a lot.

And I think darkness could be interchangeable for confusion.

Darkness could be interchangeable for tightening, for a charge, for a sleeplessness, which if that's darkness, I'm guilty of being asleep at times.

I think we all are.

And it's been my experience that the more that there's a willingness to see one another anew,

You know, to, to understand it's like, oh my goodness, like, you know, he's so angry or she's so, you know, she's so bitter or resentful.

And I think it's more, I get more curious at this stage of my life with that.

Where do I do that?

Where am I angry?

Where am I, you know, not forgiving or accepting?

And that, cause that's what I can change.

And it's my experience as I change, the people around us change too.

Yeah.

I couldn't agree more.

And you speak to something very important, especially what I see often too much on social media is the throwing out of labels.

So they're a narcissist or like, you know, a lot of people say, well, she's just she's too much in her masculine or like he's being too feminine.

So now the masculine feminine vernacular is being weaponized as well.

Yes.

And there's so little self-reflection and there's so little ownership and what it's creating is just, uh,

forget about the war that goes inside our, inside our minds.

It's like people are at war with each other.

And so speaking about masculine feminine dynamics, I know this is something that you speak to often about.

In fact, I think it was being at a Tony event where this was like first really brought up.

I mean, I understood it through the yogic lens of being,

Shiva and Shakti, yin and yang, but never really thought about it.

And when I went to Tony's event, I was trying to process my divorce.

And so learning about that definitely was incredibly helpful.

Mm hmm.

And I think that people are very confused about it and tend to not really understand what it means and the nuance of that.

And then I have people saying, well, she's just being really masculine.

And then when I look closely, I'm like, or is she just being really powerful?

Is she just in a different archetype right now?

So I would love for you to shed some light on to that through your understanding.

Yeah.

Sure.

I can certainly share my experience.

I definitely, well, number one, I love being a woman and I feel as male as I do female because it's really all about accessibility.

And both energies exist within life, exist within, you know, beyond gender, a man or a woman.

And I think sometimes that's where things can get confused.

And it's been extraordinary.

Ironically, you know, you began by discussing about Tony being intense and powerful.

And that mirror...

When it's understood, I think it's just the recognition of claiming our parts.

I think that's the gift of it and the freedom of it.

And to recognize that all of life exists within us.

And that contextually, there's times where I lead more with masculine.

Contextually, there's times where I lead more with feminine.

And we are both.

I think it gets confused when it's like, oh, I'm being this or you're being too much of that.

And once again, that's usually an external representation rather than just allowing what's organic and honest to flow through.

I do feel that...

The art of and the beauty of the feminine to cocoon life and cocoon the masculine at times is beautiful.

I think that's the softening.

That's if you think of the, you know, the feminine or any, you know, great, beautiful mother energy or mom is her capacity to unconditioning love.

to allow to embrace no matter what her child does, if she's in right mind and right heart, she loves them.

You know, it isn't like you did this, you little jerk, you said this.

No, we love our children.

But what a powerful representation of possibility for the human race to model that or to touch upon that.

And I really believe that that lives in all of us.

Whether you're a man, Tony is as masculine of a man that I've ever known.

And ironically, he's as deeply feminine as he is.

In many ways, he has much more...

access to emotion at times, like he's just got a real tender heart.

And when people do the right thing, or people are kind and generous, he's such a tender heart, he's a big teddy bear, he'll cry.

And I'm moved by that.

And, and so sometimes, you know, we look at human beings, leaders of the world, it's like, you know, oh, he's this, she's that, maybe.

but do we really understand the totality of who they are?

And I experienced that Jillian to be freedom.

I experienced it to be freedom, to be able to express and, uh, you know, and access all of our different parts.

And I think contextually different parts bring out different aspects.

Uh, but the dance of the masculine feminine, uh,

It's beautiful, especially when it's not demonized, because if I'm demonizing the masculine, I'm demonizing a part of me.

I'm demonizing a part of me.

If I'm demonizing or dismissing the feminine and don't believe that it's as powerful or whatever projection or judgment we may have, that's an internal representation.

And I find it's just it makes life more interesting and fun to recognize that, oh, my gosh, I don't have to choose.

I don't have to choose.

And that really, I think it's more about expression, you know, of our different facets of self or aspects of self that makes life more beautiful.

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For the women who are running a business and have to, in their view, access the male in them.

Yes.

You know, they have to lead.

Yes.

They have to be decisive.

Yes.

they have to not let their emotions sometimes get the better of them when they have to make these decisions.

What does it look like for a woman to bring also the feminine into her leadership?

Yes.

What does it look like and what does that feel like?

I think it looks and feels extraordinarily powerful because really leadership is, it's about serving people.

another, about serving the context of a circumstance or a business or an ecosystem.

It's, it's what, it's what you're doing.

It's like we're, you know, we all have a gift to share with life.

And I really believe we all have the capacity to lead and to invite the feminine into that part.

That's not weakness.

That's greater strength.

Because we can love and serve and lead and be utterly decisive and recognize that.

I'll tell you a big freedom for myself as well.

You know, you mentioned about emotion, like raw emotion is different than emotionality.

Raw primitive emotion is different than the drama.

And I feel that, you know, the masculine mind, the logical and clarity and decisiveness of that, it's there's a there's a gift and a power just as equal to the feminine that's

allowing and that sees and that perceives and that's intuitive.

And so recognizing that it isn't about one versus another, I think we've been conditioned possibly to believe what one works in business or in the context of leadership.

I think it's extraordinary to where individuals are willing to

bring the fullest of themselves to the table in order to serve.

Because that's really what leadership is.

I'm curious how you feel, how that translates for you, Jillian, because as you lead and in business and the masculine feminine dance and play, how does that manifest for you?

Yeah, thanks for asking, because it's something that I grapple with a lot.

You know, I'm someone who had to...

really embrace her male side in the sense, in that way of, and the way that I interpret that is I had to really get to a place where I had a lot more independence and financial stability that, that literally came from no one other than me.

I had to become purpose-driven and,

And I was never purpose driven.

I always loved to help others.

And I was always someone who wanted to achieve at a high level, but I wouldn't, I never would say that I'm purpose driven.

And now I feel very purpose driven.

So sometimes I wonder if, um,

I used to think, oh, I'm tired.

I'm feeling a little burnt out.

It's because I've been too much in my masculine.

And I don't know if that story is true.

I think that maybe what is more true is I haven't given myself enough of a break or I'm focusing too much on meeting certain needs and not meeting other needs.

I don't know if it's a conversation about masculine and feminine.

I think...

I think where I can bring in some femininity into my leadership is, you know, I guess, compassion.

I don't know.

Is compassion a feminine trait?

This is where I get confused.

Or is it just a human trait?

Or both.

I think compassion is human.

But when I think of the attributes of compassion, there's an allowance.

There's an understanding, there's an appreciation in order to be truly compassionate and appreciation for what life is offering this individual.

And so there's a deeply, there's an intimacy different than sympathy, I think.

I'm projecting, but that's certainly my experience.

And I do agree with you that compassion is genderless.

Love is genderless.

It's human.

Yes.

And great aspects of, I suppose, both of these forces, these energetical live forces, this masculine and feminine presence in dance.

And I think it's really beautiful that you're reflective of that.

And I think what you just said is so powerful and profound in the sense that, yes,

in leadership or business, what I hear from you is that compassion, because it's your nature, it's your heart, to invite that into that space.

Yeah.

And look, and so, yeah, so I think that's what I bring to it.

And, you know, I just, I noticed lots of things.

Like when I have to make a lot of decisions, I feel like I want to sleep for a month.

Yeah.

And I want to be more decisive.

Like that's where I want to kind of like draw more of my male side.

That's beautiful.

But yeah, but you know, when you run a business, you have to make a lot of decisions.

Yes.

And so that's, I think, for me, that's, I think, the most challenging part of it all.

If I think about the decisions, it's never the decisions for me.

What drains me is my emotionality about the decision.

Yes.

What drains me is if I'm indecisive about...

what's very obvious and I'm dragging my feet and I'm in my pontificating of what my, what might not, that's actually what really exhausts for me personally.

Oh yeah.

Exhausting.

Yes.

That's exhausting.

Decisiveness.

Like there's a, a clarity in a, in a, in a, I think the gift of decisiveness, if I can tell you where I connect the feminine there is in intuition and instinct.

Yeah.

That's the gift that's paired in business with for any woman or man to bring our own inner.

It's like there's the obvious, the black and white, what's on the table.

And then it's, you know, what am I feeling?

What does my soul know?

That instinct, that wisdom, that intuition.

And that's the gift of the feminine that I suppose makes the decision that much easier.

clear i'm so glad you brought that up because i had totally forgotten that which is i think in the last couple years definitely in the last year for sure i have been very committed to just following my instincts and following my intuition and it never leads me astray and so i think that that's where i when i do that that's where i feel most powerful

That's when I feel most like powerful, particularly as a woman, is when I'm able to do that and really own it.

And I agree.

I think the rumination, the back and forth is exhausting.

I also think another part of it is like, you know, I had to let someone go and, you know...

the stress that I feel from that because I'm thinking about their emotions and what they're going to be experiencing.

And so then I'm exhausted and then I become a ruminator.

And so that's a very hard part for me too.

Switching gears to marriage or just long-term partnership.

You mentioned earlier having gone through many seasons and I think anyone who's in any kind of long-term relationship goes through many seasons.

How do you think I really think that the that a large part of what makes a relationship strong and connected is determined by how well the couple navigates.

moments of disconnection.

I'd love to hear from you as not only someone who's been married for 25 years, but also married, you know, the two of you do not have a conventional life.

I mean, you just, you just don't.

It's legit.

And, but also someone who's worked with so many couples, how do you recommend that people navigate disconnection or

I wonder if there has to be some sort of understanding that disconnection is not something that we're going to tolerate for that long.

And so we're going to do we're committed to building bridges whenever we feel disconnected.

And that's a beautiful practice.

I'll tell you what we do and what I do and I find very helpful in our containership is, I think I shared it earlier, but say if I'm feeling disconnected, if I'm feeling disconnected with myself, I'm feeling disconnected with my beloved, you know what I mean?

Feeling disconnected with life.

So once again, that's really important because a lot of times, younger version of myself, I'd be looking at my husband and thinking, oh my goodness, he's so disconnected, he's so this, but I was missing, hello, what I, you know, what was going on inside of my own mind and tidying that up.

And so I love the gift of the question, can we begin again?

Yeah.

honey, I'm so sorry.

Like I haven't been my best self, the admission of the disconnect or whatever, honey, I'm so, I'm so sorry.

I just like, I walked in here and I've been so overwhelmed with this or I was, whatever's true, upset, sad, whatever we're navigating, just not the, not the story and the drama of it, just the reality of what that looks like and putting word to it.

And, uh,

The gift and the art of beginning again and recognizing that no matter how overwhelming, how no matter if you feel like you guys are in this big fight or this whatever and it's like, oh, my gosh, where am I?

Let's begin again.

It's like, honey, and the gift of, for my, once again, this is just my own experience.

I really feel that an apology for whatever that looks like, it clears the space.

And by the way, that's not everybody's path.

But if I feel that I've contributed to the schism in any way, that's my freedom to tidy that up and to say, hon, I'm so sorry.

Like I,

I can only imagine how that landed in you.

And that is such freedom for me, Jillian, versus why aren't you, he, he needs to, she needs to say sorry to me.

They need to apologize to me.

By the way, I can only say this because I've done it.

Now that's just wonky because we're over there ruminating.

I'm ruminating because I'm wanting this person to do or deliver or become something rather than just the ownership.

You know, it's interesting because a lot of times in the notion of responsibility, people will say, well, I'm responsible for my part.

Possibly.

I really feel free by looking at it as I'm responsible, period.

It's on me.

That's my freedom.

That's my sanity.

And vice versa.

And vice versa.

And by the way, we can all fall asleep.

We can all go unconscious.

We can all get our stuff hit.

And once again, just in the moment, in the moment of an awareness that I'm like, whoa, hey, I'm in a nightmare right now.

Just put word to that.

Not I'm this way.

I'm in the nightmare because you said this to me.

It's just like, oh, hon, like I'm just whatever that looks like for you to put a really not the story of it, just a sentence to it and ask for grace.

Ask, can we just can we reset?

Can we begin again?

There's that has been it seems so simplistic.

But that is a continuum in my life and home and relationships.

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I love that.

And it takes a lot of work.

I mean, talk about the fragile ego that's, to use your words, very seductive.

Because the ego is going to do everything in its power to make it so that we are not taking responsibility.

And we all have it.

It's like ego all of a sudden has become this bad thing.

It's a part of life.

It's part of us.

It gives you don't mean I'm here.

You're here because of that within us.

And so once again, rather than demonizing that, I think just putting word to it, that's where it's just like, hon, I'm sorry.

I probably look freaking crazy to you right now.

That's really humbling and stripping of the ego to actually just speak it rather than.

Whoa, does he think I look crazy right now?

I might be looking a little crazy right now.

That's worse because then the mind's like, what's he thinking?

What's he doing?

How dare he?

Or how dare she?

It gets a little muddled in that space.

And so I just find it really cleaner and clearer when it's, hey, that's on me.

I can change that.

I can affect that.

And by the way, that's from years of doing the opposite, Jillian.

And but once again, like I don't have any of this mastered.

I'm a human being living and I just know what makes me feel free, what makes me feel sane, what makes me feel connected.

And that's what I tend to the path I tend to choose at this stage because the other is really, really painful when I don't.

And I think one of the gifts of an enduring love and a long lasting love

is your home and relationship becomes a container ship.

It becomes a sanctuary.

You're pretty much stripped of everything.

You know, you go from heaven, heaven, heaven, like the enchanted stage when you first get together.

And then it's like, what?

I'm working through all my conditioning and impressions and expectations and...

But there's like you get to the other side of that and you're left with, damn, this is the person God gave me to love and to share life with.

And and love is a magnifier.

You know, it's a magnifier of of what's beautiful and blessed.

And, you know, and then the external world.

through death and wars or externally or whatever schism or whatever's happening in your life.

You have that space to come together and to share because you're pretty much left with love and gratitude.

That's what I really believe in the end that we're stripped down to.

That's beautiful.

I'm curious as that, what's been your experience of that Jillian and relationships?

Oh, well, you know.

I wrote a book that came out in January called It Begins With You.

Nice.

The Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life.

And because I was married once.

Yes.

And that marriage ended in 2014.

And it was the – I literally – what I tell people to this day is I would not be here today were it not for that –

And the thing is, is that, you know, the way that he ended the relationship was over text.

So I can look back at that and think and there and I'm going to answer your question.

This is all part of a larger point, which is that, you know, I can look back and.

speak objectively that the way that he ended it, it was that morning I had a miscarriage.

He decided not to come home.

He told me over text and my mom that day was given two months to live.

So objectively, we can all agree that the way that he broke up with me was not kind, right?

But

I have no, and I wanted to kind of segue a little bit into this concept of forgiveness because I know this is something that you talk about a lot and letting go.

Yes.

You know, people often ask me, so have you forgiven him?

And I always get so perplexed by that question or I used to get so perplexed by that question because I would ask myself, do I forgive him?

And I would say, and I would think, well,

no, I don't feel forgiveness, but I also don't feel non-forgiveness.

I just don't, I just don't see that there's anything to forgive anymore because I realized that I realized a couple of things.

And I think that this, I think it's important.

You asked the question.

I think this is relevant to our conversation.

Number one is,

there were things that I absolutely had to take responsibility for in that relationship.

Hence the book, my book, It Begins With You.

Number two.

Whatever was going on for him that day that made it so that he made a decision to end our marriage in a way that was unkind has nothing to do with me.

And everything to do with to bring full circle the quote unquote darkness that he experiences in his own psyche and his own life.

And that he was just.

Innocent in the weirdest way of he just didn't know any better.

And so.

No, I wouldn't.

It's not like I would never get back together with him because of that.

You know, you have I'm clear about that, but.

you know, so forgiveness, I never really had to forgive him because I had reached a point where I don't feel like the victim of that story.

I'm sitting here today.

I'm speaking to you.

I've been, I've admired you for the last 10 years of my life.

I've, you know,

Here, in part because of your husband and you.

Yes.

A large part, really, if I'm being brutally frank.

I've written a New York Times bestseller.

Yes.

I have a business.

Mm-hmm.

There's no, excuse my language, but there's no fucking way I would be here today.

Yes.

Had I not been quote unquote betrayed.

Quote, and I put that in quotes.

Yes.

And why, but here's my curious thing.

Yeah.

Why do you put betrayed in quotes?

Because betrayed is the story.

Okay.

But what I feel now, what I, betrayed is the story.

It's like the story that ran in my head of betrayal.

It's what other people would project and see as betrayal.

I can, without emotion, say that was not, you know, I would never tell someone to break up with their partner that way.

So I can acknowledge that.

Okay.

But I don't have any, I wouldn't be here.

I mean, there was even like a joke that he once said and was like, should I send you an, like, should I send you a bill?

Like, you know, we had like a little like moment of laughter about it.

That's beautiful.

And then I had a very difficult relationship with my father and they said, well, do you forgive your father?

It's like, well, I don't have to forgive him.

Because if I can understand why a person does what they do and that it's not personal, forgiveness is not even on the equation.

It's just I don't have to forgive because there's nothing to forgive.

This is a very difficult concept for me to articulate.

But I hope that I'm making some sort of sense.

And so you asked about my process.

Yeah, I've had to really...

step into my humanity and understand myself and in trying to understand myself and bring compassion to myself, that's how I'm able to think more critically about others.

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That's beautiful, Jillian.

That's beautiful.

And I have a couple thoughts from my own experience.

You know, the notion of betrayed or unkind, once again, it's and this is this is how I look at forgiveness is actually seeing life accurately.

That might not have.

Was it unkind or?

What is it your preference that he broke up with you a different way, considering everything?

Of course, and yet we never really know the full context, just like he may not have known the full context.

And and then it's it's I feel like there's just such freedom in that.

in how we convey and portray what was because, I mean, have you been unkind?

Absolutely.

I've been unkind.

Definitely.

I've been unkind.

I've done unconscious things and that's innocent.

And so I think the forgiveness or the compassion, that was your word, comes from recognizing that I'm no different than him.

I'm no different than him.

Cause then we get to drop the adjectives of the betray and the unkind and just, you know, beautiful guy doing the best he can, just like you and I. Yeah.

Was it, was it a wonky way to do it?

Sure.

But you know, was there bad intention?

I don't know because we don't know until we're walking in one another's shoes and

And I feel for myself that's freedom because that's the path to forgiveness is to recognize that, okay, I might not have done that in that moment, but holy smokes, I was unkind in this moment, in this moment, in this moment, in this moment.

Because otherwise an individual can innocently get demonized.

You know what I mean?

And then I think that's the real power of responsibility is recognizing.

And I think that's where the real freedom comes in.

It's like, wow, she's so angry.

He's so angry.

Well, I can be really angry.

It just looks different.

It's actually quiet and it's internal.

Is that any worse than external anger?

Yes.

I don't know.

Do you know what I mean?

And so that's the beautiful gift of, I suppose, just seeing life accurately and is dropping the...

the story about it because then that's mine and your freedom.

And that's, that's a pathway.

We, this began about forgiveness.

I think that's where we arrive in the end is to recognize our,

holy frick, me too.

I've done this too.

I've been blind.

I've been unconscious.

I've been unkind.

And then that brings a really close intimacy with those that maybe we have experienced hurt or pain or devastation or disappointment.

I don't know if that translates.

No, it completely translates.

I think absolutely.

And I think it's the key to moving on.

And I think when you speak to looking at things accurately, my experience is that in order to see things accurately, you have to see it from multiple different perspectives.

Yes.

And, and recognize we're no different.

We're no different.

We're no, that's the real freedom.

That's the real, that's the tough one.

The big jerk, the whatever, you know what I mean?

Hey, yeah, that's me too.

And that is not personal.

It's human.

Yeah.

This is freaking human.

Like we all have this like labyrinth of mind, which it's not always easy to navigate.

It's humbling.

Yeah, very much so.

And so I feel like that's just a benevolent way to, you know, I was married prior and divorced and it's just beautiful at this stage.

You know, I don't think you ever really stop loving yourself.

Even if it got weird, I don't think we ever really stopped loving one another.

If you've shared a certain amount of life with someone, you just want what's best for them.

You want their happiness.

And it's okay that it's not you.

It's okay that it's not me.

It's okay that it's not him.

But bless, you know, like go have a beautiful life.

And I think that that's just a really...

true way to recognize because the old version is let's make each other wrong for all these years for what someone did or didn't do all those years ago because that that takes energy at least it has for me when when i tend to do that

Yes.

Oh, absolutely.

And I feel so committed to helping people move on from heartbreak.

And this is really, truly the only way.

I have a kind of silly question for you that I've been wanting to ask you for so long, which is, was there ever a time in your relationship with Tony where you just had to say to him, stop coaching me?

Yeah.

That's funny.

Do you know what's interesting?

I can't say Tony coaches me.

I can't say he coaches me.

Because honestly, God bless.

I think he'd probably like love to stuff this genie back in the bottle at times, but she's got a mind and a life of her own.

Yes.

Yeah.

And certainly a force of nature.

And so, but, you know, if I've also learned an incredible amount from the mirror of him and ironically so much of who he is and his differences that ironically, like I look back over my trajectory and his trajectory and I see we've both claimed different parts in one another.

and made them our own.

And I, and I think that that's just really holistic.

It's really kind.

It's, it's, it's sane to recognize like, gosh, there's a higher purpose to relationship than just, I want love or I want this thing.

It's, I really, it's a path to evolve.

Just like if you're on your own, it's the same thing.

You know, life is all, it's all growing us to invite us forward and to grow and to learn and, and to touch upon, I think the nature of reality, which is love.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

She's Unstoppable Summit, because this is something that you started to do is really to create these live events and virtual events that are for women.

Can you share a little bit about this?

Yes.

Well, I think it's what I recognize.

I think there's, number one, I think there's a unique role

opportunity being a woman and as well being a woman has its own unique challenges and I feel having a community in the containership of a safe space to be and share all of who we are and to see the commonalities and the threads and to recognize the oh my gosh and it's like you know there's

all the roles, I think, and identities of responsibilities that we as human, but specifically women, can get pulled in different directions.

And it's being a mother at this stage and that path, and certainly beautiful, humbling path,

I really recognize that like, gosh, there's just such a, I feel gift to be able to share and to mirror one another, the power, the gift, the transformation, the opening, the vulnerability, the beauty, the strength, the tenderness, the

like just all of it, that it all lives inside of you.

It all lives inside of me.

And we create, and that's why we created the She's Unstoppable Summit, is to really tap into all of our aspects and to explore our many facets of self so that we can be this unstoppable, creative, intuitive, instinctive,

feminine masculine force of life and be your own interpretation and the fullest expression of life itself that's amazing to me and that's why we created this summit to give you context last year we had close to 500,000 women tune in Jillian from all around the world yes and it's a free event it's virtual this year's format it's going to be a three day program just two hours a day that's in August

Yes, it's in August.

Please, Jillian, join us.

I would love to have you.

I would love to be there.

But it's really, and it's interesting because, you know, we noodled

on the name unstoppable.

And, you know, I thought about it and I was like, gosh, like there's times where I want to stop.

There's times where I want to completely and utterly take a sacred pause.

And I recognize that both perspectives are true, but it's more about connecting to that, the unstoppable love, the unstoppable grace, the unstoppable intuition and strength and creativity that has guided you and I to this moment.

That there's something inside of you that raised your hand that said yes.

There's something inside of me that raised my hand that said yes to this moment.

All of your listeners, your audience that are tuning in, it's like what guided all of us to have this moment, to have this shared space.

That's so interesting and beautiful to me.

And that's why I recreated the She's Unstoppable Summit.

It's amazing.

So I believe that it's August 20th to 22nd.

It's free.

It's virtual.

We will have all the all the links in the show notes.

Jillian, we have a beloved, dear friend and woman sister on the path, Chloe Madonis.

uh, in common at the, she, the Robbins Madonna Center for Strategic Intervention.

And she said, she's like a family member to me.

She's like a grandmother to me, a mother to me and, uh, love her dearly.

And I just love that she's been a mentor of yours.

And I had no clue that you've been through her program.

Yes.

It all began there.

You know, my friend said to me when I was like in the depth of my pain, she said, well, why don't you become a coach?

And I just looked at her like she was crazy.

And I was like, what do you mean?

And then here I am today.

And that's where I got certified.

And that's the training I did.

And Chloe had such a profound impact on me.

And I also worked with another coach there that has continued to have a profound impact on me.

And so...

Yeah, I really, I believe so strongly in the power of mentorship.

I would never be here today if it weren't for all of my teachers.

I feel very compelled to teach others.

And so I don't believe that any of us achieve anything without the help and the guidance of others.

So I'm really grateful.

I agree.

These amazing giants.

Chloe and Tony's collaboration has been really deeply powerful for a lot of coaches and therapists or psychologists of individuals that are wanting to combine psychology, personal development and therapy all in one.

And it's just really powerful.

And I just love that you found your way there.

Yes, very grateful.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Sage Robbins, thank you so much for taking the time to share your incredible wisdom.

I think this is going to be, um, the listeners are, are, are going to love this conversation, I think more than any other conversation I've had here.

So, um, I just really want to honor you for, um,

for doing all the work that you've done to serve others, to being willing to reflect on yourself and to do the hard and necessary.

I don't know.

I mean, I was going to call it emotional labor, but I just think it's just being a human being and you've contributed so much to the world and to people.

And I'm just very grateful for you.

So thank you.

Thank you, Julie.

And the feeling's extraordinarily mutual.

And we meet in that.

We meet in that because it's really, I sit before you because I was selfish and wanting to know a freedom and a clarity of mind and an understanding of myself and through life and...

pain and love and all of it and age, life experience.

You know, we come to a space of understanding that we truly are one another's mirror.

And so it's been a beautiful conversation, Gillian.

And thank you for your time and for your life and how you've chosen to live it and share and shed insights and illumination in the confused spaces and places we call mind.

Thank you, Sage.

Thank you, Gillian.

Jillian on Love is a Q-Code production, executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson, produced and edited by Travis Howe.

Music by Will Tendi.